WRITERS ARE STAYING AWAY FROM SAG IN DROVES

[Bill Bartram]

I'm a SAG, AFTRA, and Equity member, earning my living as an actor in Hollywood for 25 years.

While WGA had admirable unity & discipline last year, the current SAG leadership is in bloody disarray...what's new? And Monday 6/9/08 they want WGA pickets to prop up a corrupt SAG regime.

SAG Exec Doug Allen, crossed his own NFL picket line in Buffalo in 1974, worked 27 years rubber-stamping Gene Upshaw's autocracy at the NFLPA, then took the SAG job after SAG Board "membershipfirsters" had popped a cap into three successive SAG Execs until they found their head-banger. What's Doug Allen's union strategy? First attack the agents (whom SAG has no current franchise agreement with,) then when members said no to that, attack AFTRA for SAG's own lack of organizing of acting work.

Monday June 9's 2008 SAG "Solidarity" rally is no more than a cover-your-ass tactic to bash its sister union AFTRA.

Why did AFTRA negotiate separately with the AMPTP? For 18 months current SAG leadership has been engaged in illegal contract-raiding, jurisdictional shennanigans, spending members' dues money to trash AFTRA contracts, and fomenting wreckless union-bashing instead of negotiation.

AFTRA contracts are all democratically ratified and worked by actors who belong to both SAG and AFTRA for work in prime-time, cable, radio, interactive, animation, internet, etc. -- the same worker pool with membership in both performers' unions in order to work all the contracts.

Come Monday, as Harry Cohn used to say, "Keep typing!" Don't bother to support a failing, flailing regime of SAG leaders who DO NOT have SAG nor AFTRA members' interests at heart.

[Carine]

Can you be more specific about the contract raiding that SAG has done ?
Is it like what AFTRA did with prime time shows like Dirt ?

My point is I do not think this line of argument is any good. Unity should have been foremost on everyone's mind, especially so close to negotiation. AFTRA hasn't won anything by going solo. They didn't get a better deal than the WGA or the DGA. SAG plus AFTRA would have made it possible. There's a major difference between dga, WGA and AFTRA / sAG. It's the sheer numbers. As an outsider, the only thing I could do when I saw AFTRA going solo taking that lame excuse of The Bold and BEautiful situation is shake my head.

SAg and AFTRA could have waited to kill each other after the negotiation, and I do feel the same about those petitioners inside SAG, they couldn't pick a worst time for their little shenanigans.
The only entity which is benefiting from all the bad blood is the AMPTP. And really, who, here, in his/her right mind, can think this is a good thing?

It's time to take a step back and think calmly and reasonably about what is more important. Trivial feuds or the next three years (and I'm being overly optimistic in thinking that in 3 years, you guys will have a window to renegotiate)

[Bill Bartram]

"Can you be more specific about the contract raiding that SAG has done?"

Answer: the SAG Exec & SAG Board members engaged in extended conversations with a SAG Board Member's close friend & neighbor, Bold and Beautiful's Susan Flannery and cast members Flannery was able to gather. AFTRA which has had exclusive jurisdiction over Soaps since the beginning of television was not notified for months of these discussions. This is illegal under the AFL-CIO Constitution Article XX.

Cable shows like "Dirt" which you allude to that are under AFTRA jurisdiction were never SAG shows. SAG utilizes its Primetime/Theatrical for everything from "Monk," to "CSI." AFTRA uses comparable member-ratified cable contracts based on the shared SAG/AFTRA Primetime Agreement. AFTRA detractors are unable to point to any extant program that was SAG or that SAG was attempting to organize, that ultimately went AFTRA. SAG & AFTRA staff cooperate daily on issues of contract specifics and errant producers who are cruising for a "deal" from one union or the other.

Since the failure of the SAG AFTRA merger attempt in 2003 where 58.5% of the SAG membership voted "yes," SAG has been beset by infighting and took its eye off the ball for organizing work for its members.

AFTRA has been more successful organizing low-budget scripted cable programming for SAG and AFTRA actors. Current "membershipfirst" Hollywood SAG Board members have chosen to attack AFTRA in a concerted effort for 18 months rather than sit down and negotiate jointly. Like a battered spouse, AFTRA ultimately chose to walk away from its abusers and negotiate a contract with the AMTPT which thousands of SAG and AFTRA members think is quite good.

[Carine]

Ah so you use the same thing as AFTRA has used, the pretext of the Bold and Beautiful situation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Flanery and McCook have denied being approached by SAG. They denied over and over explaining that they were the ones who approached SAG and Allen went out of his way to say they had to address their issues with AFTRA and there was nothing SAG could do. Correct me if I'm wrong but these two are dual card holders and most of the cast has been apparently dissatisfied with AFTRA way of dealing with things. Correct me I'm wrong but they went to AFTRA and try to address the issues that were bothering them and AFTRA did not answer or reply or do anything. Maybe Flanery and McCook did a PR thing to make sure that SAG didn't look bad, but what would be the point. The Bold and beautiful is an AFTRA show. They could have supported the way AFTRA explained things, but they didn't. That should tell you something.

AFTRA has no jurisdiction as far as I know on primetime shows whether cable or network. In essence, you're saying that because they're cheaper and actors get paid less, then the better it is. Well, I don't think it's that good for actors to be paid less for their work on primetime shows.

The problem with your discussion is 1) AFTRA has closed the deal 2) there is nothing that can change the fact AFTRA has gone solo and has in essence made it possible for the AMPTP to have the upper hand. 3) SAG now has to try for every single other org to get a better deal. 4) without a doubt, the deal will be approved by AFTRA members. Good for them.

I cannot think of any reason to start a discussion about AFTRA/ SAG dissension while it's over and done with.

Now, all we can do is wait and see how SAG will approach its own negotiation.
And again, as an outsider, I am really sad about the feuds between the organizations, it achieves nothing but benefit the AMPTP. But again, one can be so engrossed in its own angst that one doesn't see the injuries done by one's action. Pity.

[Gollysunshine]

Dirt is a brand new show. If SAG is supposed to have jurisdiction over primetime scripted shows, how did Dirt wind up AFTRA, if AFTRA wasn't out there soliciting the producers with their 'cost-saving' cheaper deal?

Same for Damages?

Oh, and by the way, how do you know writers are staying away from SAG in droves, when I think Monday's rally is the first time SAG has asked for writers' support? Unless I've been asleep and my clocks have lost all their time codes, Monday hasn't happened yet.

[Bill Bartram]

Carine,
re: Bold and Beaut, Flannery is a neighbor and friend of a virulently anti-AFTRA SAG Board member (with no career these days and a lot of time for mischief.) Last Winter all soaps had been involved in a negotiation with AFTRA over foreign monies thought to be owed to actors from foreign airings. After thorough investigation it was determined that proper amounts had in fact been paid. But our errant SAG Board member jumped on the opp and bad-mouthed AFTRA to Flannery, saying, "You're maxed out on your AFTRA H&R, wouldn't you like some of that fine old SAG P&H after all this time? Why don't you call for a decert!" Meetings were held at Flannery's request. Flannery as the biggest star on Bold & Beaut holds casting & firing power and strong-armed some younger cast members who timorously scratched their sigs on Flannery's "petition." By AFL-CIO rules, SAG should have said to Flannery, "Sorry, we can't talk to you; take it up with your union (AFTRA.)" But, alas, certain Hollywood SAG Board members salivate at any thought of decertifying anything in AFTRA's jurisdiction. Think of the ire WGA members & staff are feeling toward IA over animation and reality writers. But WGA beefs are legit. Current SAG beefs are mostly warm gas from swollen bellies, careers cooled, and political party infighting turned bitter and toxic.

Your comments about "AFTRA has no jurisdiction..." are incorrect. AFTRA has had jurisdiction over live, taped and now digital tv since the invention of the medium and its rapidly evolving technical incarnations. AFTRA shows in cable are shows SAG has never organized whose budgets fall below SAG's contractual threshold. Many working SAG members bemoan the fact that SAG hasn't had the wherewithall to do what AFTRA has done -- tailor scripted cable contracts for low-budget cable programming as it has successfully done in SAG Indy contracts for film, some as low as $100 a day for an actor working on a SAG indy film.

Individual unions go through cycles with organizing efforts rising and falling, infighting intensifying or waning, solidarity coming and going. SAG is in a fallow non-organizing bellicose cycle; AFTRA is in an industrious cycle successfully organizing union work for performers. I'm a member of both unions and glad of it. I however prefer AFTRA's current non-hysterical, constructive, organizing stance. I'll vote yes on the AFTRA contract and yes on the SAG contract if they can negotiate one. If SAG strikes, all their shows will stay SAG shows; that's the labor law and it should be that way, and I'll hit the bricks for SAG. But on shows that are currently AFTRA, casts, crews, and writers will be at work earning a union wage.

It comes down to personalities. When you study the moves and strategies of union execs and leaders, U.S. Presidents, corporate CEOs, Televangelists, etc., you can learn a lot about why they behave the way they do -- some good, many rotten. It is my opinion that the current SAG Exec and Hollywood SAG Board leadership are flailing, can't negotiate with either their sister union, management, or our own SAG membership, and fall in the latter of the two categories of leadership -- rotten.

[Carine]

Yeah, the thing is you totally miss my first point entirely.

Whatever happened happened, it's done and over with.

Nothing good could be coming out of this kind of posts.

As for the WGA not showing solidarity, let's wait until it really starts, shall we?

[Bill Bartram]

Okay.

[George Watson]

Can you please provide your source for this quote:
'AFTRA has had jurisdiction over live, taped and now digital tv since the invention of the medium and its rapidly evolving technical incarnations."

In actual fact from what I have seen researched the original AFTRA jurisdiction covered ONLY PROGRAMS BROADCAST LIVE. Not taped live. But BROADCAST live - such as the old Tonight Show or the news etc. It must be BROADCAST as it is being made to be Aftra jurisdiction. it doesn't have anything to do with tape vs film or whether it is taped before a live audience - it must be BROADCAST LIVE.

This is from the original 4 A's documentation which divided the jurisdiction of the only member unions.

What is your source for AFTRA jurisdiction over "live, taped and now digital tv" ?

This is a crucial issue.

Thank you.

[Bill Bartram]

Geo.,
For more than a thumbnail sketch of AFTRA's long-time foothold in television go to: http://www.sagwatch.net/Differences.html
Many feel the key in the 4A's 4/20/54 doc is this: "...Kinescope or similar device done in the manner of a live broadcast..."
Similar device?...Videotape camera, digital camera, etc.

Later the Situs Agreement was created which designated specific Hollywood lots as film-only (SAG/celluloid -- episodics, motion pictures, movies of the week) and the remainder as video-tape (AFTRA -- primarily sitcoms and of course news & variety production.)

What's the consensus amongst Hollywood casting people & acting teachers? http://redbirdstudio.com/AWOL/aftrasag.html:

"Screen Actors Guild (SAG):
Principal performers appearing in feature motion pictures
All other types of productions shot on film.
Extra Players in feature motion pictures
Television programming
Non-broadcast films and commercials in certain areas.
Shares with AFTRA video tape jurisdiction for:
Television programs
Television commercials
Industrial/educational programs."

In the ten years since the failure of the 1998 SAG/AFTRA merger attempt SAG & AFTRA staffs have been cooperating, trading information on the minutae of each other's tv contracts, and going about the business of organizing work for members. But only since ex-NFLPA exec Doug Allen and Alan Rosenberg joined forces as SAG leadership in 2006 has there been this obsessive preoccupation with AFTRA's having successfully organized low-budget scripted cable programming. My theory is these two guys, pressured by the ingrown white-guys-over-55-whose-acting-careers-waned-decades-ago who comprise the majority of the Hollywood SAG Board, chose to attack AFTRA rather than negotiate as had been done since Phase One tied the two unions together in 1981. (Membership First made as its primary political goal the abrogation of Phase 1 terms; it has obviously succeeded.)

Ask Rosenberg; in 2006 SAG sat down with a half-dozen production companies generating scripted cable programming. AFTRA requested to be included in the talks as a joint partner under Phase 1. SAG resisted and offered AFTRA an "observer only" status. AFTRA Staff honored that request and sat in on the talks. Rosenberg points to this snub as "regrettable."
So don't swallow the Membership First propaganda generously fed to WGA leadership last year that AFTRA is the poacher, the undercutter, the "problem." The problem is the adversarial rather than collegial behavior on the part of SAG leadership and the understandable reaction of the two highly competent women who lead AFTRA, Kim Roberts-Hedgepeth and President Roberta Reardon.

Since 1998 AFTRA has been going about the business of organizing work for its members. Unfortunately SAG has been preoccupied with firing three successive National Executive Directors, torpedoing two SAG/AFTRA merger attempts which the majority of both memberships voted in favor of (60% supermajority was required,) and cowtowing to the highly politicized party -- Membership First -- which controls votes on the Hollywood SAG Board.

Are you aware that SAG "undercut" AFTRA in the 1970s by eliminating the scale + 10% provision both unions held to for decades for commercial payments to talent? SAG watched jealously as AFTRA won more and more commercial jurisdiction with videotape, and offered the industry a "discount" by unilaterally deciding to give management the agents' commission out of the talent's scale. So what goes around comes around.

[George Watson]

Bill,
I did take a look at the sagwatch.net website you suggested and it refers to the old sag page and the original 4 a's ruling here

http://www.sagwatch.net/resources/4A$27sresolution.jpg

for its reference.

(you might have to type the part after the dollar sign becuase that isn't posting well.)

They argued and settled this very issue FINALLY (there words) back in 1952.
If you look at that four A's FINAL AND BINDING RESOLUTION TO SETTLE THIS VERY SAME DISPUTE THAT WAS HEATED EVEN IN 1952 it does NOT support the contention that AFTRA has jurisdiction in TV unless it is BROADCAST LIVE. It clearly states this.

I reproduce that ruling fully typed at the bottom of this post. I typed it exactly as originally written punctuation, capitalization and weird spelling of the word Artistes and all.

(First remember that TVA or the Television Authority merged later with AFRA, the radio union, to become AFTRA so if the TVA didn't have it then AFTRA doesn't becuase AFRA had nothing else but radio before merging with TVA,)

In fact it says the 1950 ruling granting the Television Authority jurisdiction over "television" is RESCINDED and REPLACED by the this ruling of 1952 which granted TVA jurisdiction ONLY over shows for live broadcast or brief prerecorded items to be played in the live broadcast ONLY.

You can read it for yourself at the bottom of this post.

Thus, as you can see, AFTRA's only claim to visual actors at all comes from its merger with the Television Authority or TVA and the Television Authority had NO JURISDICTION over television that was recorded for later edited playback ("filmed") - the television authority only had LIVE BROADCAST jurisdiction when it merged with the radio union AFRA. Needless to say AFRA as a radio union had no claim to visual actors on it's own.


as to your comment
"..Kinescope or similar device done in the manner of a live broadcast..."
Similar device?...Videotape camera, digital camera, etc."
unless that videotape camera or digital camera is being used similiar to the kinescope or other device to record a LIVE BROADCAST you are incorrect.

And remember back then the KINESCOPE WAS A ***FILM*** CAMERA stuck up to the televison tube to record the live broadcast that were being broadcast - it NEVER had anything to do with film vs tape! EVER!

The distinction made in 1952 with regard to the equipment was whether is was used for LIVE BROADCAST - not whether it used a video imaging rasterization tube to grab the picture from the lens.

for example the wikipedia entry on the kinescope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope states clearly that is was a device for recording with FILM the image off a picture tube (television screen ) for shows that were being broadcast LIVE.

In other words first came the tv camera which used electronics to instantly form an image on a tube and then TV screen after it had been broadcast live without recording or editing. Then along came the kinescope recorder which used film to record that LIVE TRANSMISSION for future rebroadcast.

note the jurisdiction had NOTHING to DO with video or film - indeed the AFTRA or TELEVISION AGENCY shows were being recorded then ON FILM not videotape.

IT WAS THE FACT THAT THEY WERE LIVE SHOWS THAT GAVE AFTRA's PREDECESSOR the TELEVISION AGENCY jurisdiction .

It has NEVER been about "film" or "video" It has alway s BEEN ABOUT WHETHER THE SHOW WAS BROADCAST LIVE to determine if AFTRA had jurisdiction. the ONLY EXCEPTION was small prerecorded snippets meant to be played DURING THE LIVE BROADCAST SHOW. they were VERY specific about this becuase this dispute was being SETTLED finally in 1952 after there had been much fighting about this exact issue.

Sag had jurisdiction otherwise

the "Television Authority" forerunner of AFTRA had only LIVE BROADCAST jurisdiction NO MATTER IF IT WAS ALSO RECORDED ON FILM AS IT WAS BROADCAST L

[Gollysunshine]

Bill Bartram, I was pretty incensed with your first sentence: "re: Bold and Beaut, Flannery is a neighbor and friend of a virulently anti-AFTRA SAG Board member (with no career these days and a lot of time for mischief.)" because while you didn't name the board member with no career these days, it seems to me that the people who did the talking to Flannery were Rosenberg and Allen, and since I don't believe Allen is an actor with no career or otherwise, it made me think you are talking about Rosenberg.

I don't know the man personally, but I happen to like the man as an actor, and am always happy to see him appear on shows... Far from having no career at all, he does quite a bit of work and in TV shows that I admire -- on top of which he's president of the guild and spending time preparing for the fight of his life negotiations. Okay, he isn't the lead in shows but that only means more than ever he understands the plight of the middle class actor.

So I decided to look up that 25-year career you keep telling us you have. Seems to me that it is you who have no career and plenty of time for this kind of mischief you put on this thread. No entry at all for Bill Bartram on IMDBpro, which makes one wonder if that 25-year career even exists.

Oh, yes, you can be using a pseudonym, and I have nothing against using a pseudonym. But I do have something against people donning a pseudonym with the express purpose of causing mischief and trying to stir up trouble.

As for your trouble-making prediction that writers are staying away from SAG in droves, I certainly saw plenty of writers out in front of SAG headquarters for the rally. Did you bother to show up to fight for the continuation of your 25-year SAG/AFTRA career?

There were plenty of writers in their red shirts and there was a fair number in WGA/SAG shirts, which I've never seen before. And both Patric Verrone and David Young were there as well.

Of course there were a lot of writers missing because they were working. And they had to be, whether they wanted to be at the rally or not. Remember that little clause called a 'sympathy strike' the WGA tried to fight for and ultimately had to abandon? That was the only way currently working writers could have shown up at the rally -- and the AMPTP would have fought the writers till doomsday before they let a guild, any guild, have the ability to walk out with another.

What I didn't see was the so-called "A-listers" there and somehow I can't believe they were all working and couldn't show up. Even in the TV world, while the writers are back to work, much of production isn't slated to start until July.

Up until this thread, I've been very pleased with this forum. I have felt I could trust the people who have answers my questions to answer them honestly so that I could understand what's going on in a part of the business I'm not all that familiar with.

Normally, I wouldn't even say anything, but that title is such a nasty misrepresentation of the truth that I had to, because I didn't want anybody seeing it and thinking it was anything but the mischief you intended it to be.

[Bill Bartram]

Gollysunshine,
No, I'm not referring to Alan Rosenberg. I'm referring to a long-time SAG Board member who has made a career out of organizing Membership First, the controlling party on the Hollywood SAG Board whose plank has included defeat of SAG/AFTRA merger, destroying the SAG/ATA Franchise Agreement in 2002 leaving SAG members unprotected from onerous General Service Agreements purveyed by agents, suppression of dissent by SAG's Regional Branch Division and SAG/NY, the abrogation of the 27 year-old terms of Phase 1 between SAG and AFTRA, and finally the decertification of AFTRA as a union representing actors. (A charter Membership First member was disciplined and removed from the AFTRA Board not so long ago for leaving a long paper trail with the Department of Labor and NLRB, calling for such decert procedures -- in egregious violation of the fiduciary duty of a union board member.) The Bold & Beaut incident is a direct outgrowth of this agenda and strategy.

I can only compare this collective "agenda" to the organizing work of the Washington neo-conservatives who strove to do battle with and eliminate any progressive agenda from the American electorate, the national dialogue, the U.S. State Dept., and certainly in the Executive Branch for the past 7 years.

As for attendance at today's pro-SAG demonstration, video footage reveals approximately 50 of the 150 persons gathered to have been SAG Staff, somewhat reminiscent of "demonstrations" on behalf of Hugo Chavez outside Casa de Parliament in Caracas, Venezuela.

I don't want to demean the intentions of my fellow SAG members, but mark...this time-wasting, dues-costing, divisive attack on our sister union will prove counterproductive and is already galvanizing dual-card holders to push back and in fact ratify the AFTRA agreement in greater numbers than if SAG leaders had simply gone about the business of negotiating on our behalf rather than battling a sister union to which SAG performers also belong.

Young & Verrone certainly owe the Allens a debt of gratitude for the support SAG gave WGA last year and showed it by walking at 5757 Wilshire on Monday. As a SAG & AFTRA member I walked your picket line repeatedly at Gate 7 on the West end of Warner Brothers last year as well. But the only thing I feel I'm owed is proper, intelligent & effective leadership from my two unions -- SAG & AFTRA. At this juncture I don't see that at SAG, and I prefer the more businesslike style of leadership being practiced at AFTRA where the agenda is focused on organizing union work for members.

You didn't see A-listers marching because they are in great part disgusted with the style of divisive politics being practised by the current sitting Hollywood SAG leadership. Where you'll see A-listers is on the SAG ballot this Fall, pushing the current Membership First SAG Board members off into fading memory.

re: Anonymity, you won't find my nom de guerre on imdb.